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1970 383 'Cuda Wont Start

  
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1970 383 'Cuda Wont Start

 
Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/02/13
08:55 PM

Hi Everyone I just recently joined this forum so please bare with me as I am getting used to this service at mopar muscle magazine hear. Any how I am running into an issue so hears what happened. I recently just picked up my 383 'Cuda about a month ago and drove it on a daily basis. within a week or so I had 1,500 km on the car and changed the oil right away. I'm running 20W50 with zinc in it, none synthetic. After I changed to this oil the car on that day shut off on me while i was driving on the road at 60 km/h (around 30 - 40 mph). This didn't just happen the first time but a few times even before when i still had the break in oil inside the motor. When i stalled it last the car burn't a spark wire, and at this point only had spark in all 7 cylinder's. I got boosted that night, the starter ran but didn't fire up the motor. We tried multiple times and nothing at all. At last I put my foot down on the gas and sure enough the car started but resisted after and turned off, This happened multiple times. Finally I tried again with my foot down car started, and i kept my foot pinned on the gas peddle to keep the revs high assuming that the carburetor was flooded with gas and put the car into first with the car still pinned at high rpm and drove down the road on 7 cylinders. the car was jerking and resisted, I felt almost that the car was struggling to run at high RPM, If i left the gas off the car it would stall completely leaving me with an electrical issue or a motor issue at this point. Basically the car failed at driving me home and I finally got it towed back to my house. the next day I drained the oil and changed the oil to a Royal purple synthetic with zink 20w50 , and replaced the oil filter to a Fram oil filter on the car, including the spark wire that burnt out, and purchased a brand new coil (Coil Blaster 2). I'm running an MSD Digital 6A System on my 'Cuda, with a Wilson Starter on the motor just for the record. My motor is mostly forged and is bored 60 over, i Got 440 heads in her, performance RPM edelbrock intake, and a 750 CFM Edelbrock carburetor. Just a little bit of an idea for you Mopar Guy's. going back to the story, I tried to fire up the car again and it started struggling to turn over, the starter on the car made a struggling noise as supposed to just starting the car regularly. after a few shots from that I started looking heavily into the electrical and tried to check for loose wires, bad connections, or shortages of any kind. Nothing so far. I know a bit about electrical but not a lot, however I went threw all the wiring and tightened up my bolts on the fire wall that the regulator gets grounded to, I also Checked my starter relay and by accident i touched it with a wrench and it arched but nothing shortened thank god. I checked my connection between the small brown wire that goes to the solenoid terminal and i checked the big wire that positively goes to the larger terminal on the starter. The small one seems a bit loose but it's tightened pretty good to the terminal enough to get the power it needs, and the big one is tightened pretty good too. I started it again and the car struggles to turn over making that slow turning sound almost like its dying out. I took off all my spark plugs, I took a little wrench and went to the pulley bolt where I could crank the motor and it cranked pretty good but I had to put force on the wrench since it was not a huge torque wrench that could easily crank it, but so far so good it's cranking and not making any noises inside the motor. I am scared if this is a motor issue, or if it's an electrical issue. At this point right now the car doesn't even make that struggling noise anymore, it just doesn't start and when I try it, the starter just makes a huge tick sound but no cranking over at all. I have no clue what to do and i am in desperate help, I did put all my keys on my Chrysler key for the 'Cuda which weighed the key down when i put the key in the 'Cuda ignition, Could it be that i screwed up my cylinder in the ignition switch ? or the ignition switch is screwed up itself ? So much questions but i am out of luck hear Confused, Should i try to jump start the starter between the solenoid and the large terminal ? Whats your opinion and any added knowledge to add to the cars issue ? Thank you for all your support, hears a pic of her.

Outside View Of The Street Monster#View

If the Picture URL doesn't work then hears the link to the site where I have her posted up.

http://inspiredstream.com/m/photos/view/outside-view-of-the-street-monster#view  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/03/13
06:08 AM

wow... what a great looking car...

956

a wet cuda with its mouth open yawning..
for people who want to see the whole image.. right click and open image in a new window.  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/03/13
06:16 AM

first... print this chart.. run the first part of the test to see if your battery is fully charged..
this is an image like the photo above..
~~~~~~~~~~~
Voltagedroptesting

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you can run the 4 part test while cranking...  if you cannot get the engine to start...

post results..

this test can be done in under a minute.. even with the engine running at high speed...

practice it on another car first... or several other cars...

its cheep .. its easy it WORKS to find bad electrical connections that look good but are NOT..  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/03/13
06:45 AM

since i cannot see under your hood... and you have MSD ignition system.. charging system voltage is critical..

most mopars have a braided ground strap from the back of one of the cylinder heads to the firewall..

this one is about 5 bucks from most parts stores...

Ground Strap 15 Inch Zpsbc9293c1

mount this to the back of one of the cylinder heads to a good ground spot on the firewall...

why..  where ever you have grounded the MSD units large Black wire at.. this reduces the spark return path from the spark plugs back to the MSD or ignition box on the negative side...

when the spark jumps the gap from the center electrode to the side electrode.. it does no just vanish.. it needs to complete the circuit back to where it was created...

since the MSD unit uses something around 400 volts to the positive side of the coil... instead of 9 to 11 volts.. there is a lot more ground connection needed to complete the circuit..  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/03/13
06:56 AM

you might also want to use a mirror and a flashlight to view down the carb primary throat when the engine is idling.. or as it has stalled.. there should not be fuel pouring out of the boosters when idling.. or when the engine has stopped... only air flow across the venturi boosters should pull fuel up and over..

if your needle and seats have dirt in them... or there is too much fuel pressure.. it could flood either side... and cause the need to hold the throttle open to get the engine to start...

what kind of fuel filter do you have protecting the fuel pump and carb from sediment in the tank and fuel lines...  and it does not have to come from your car.. it can come thru the gas station nozzles also..  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/03/13
08:09 PM

I did most of your tests that you gave me and found everything to be 12.65 which shows that the battery is fully charged. I'm using an Eliminator battery by the way for reference. Um I would like to say that I didn't try the 2nd test or the 3rd test you told me about relating to the 0.02, and 0.04, I did try my volt meter on the red post and black posts of the battery, I even did other tests as well. I put my voltage meter to my larger terminal where the Wilson Starter is and its reading 12.65 volts, I Didn't try the little Wire beneath the terminal which would be the solenoid, however i should try that as well. I tested all my starter relay connections, accept for the fusible link which leads me to my ignition switch I should try that. Either way i try and start the car and it doesn't even turn the motor, what's happening at this point is that the starter makes a ticking noise almost as if it is a pop can noise when you flick it with your finger, "Tick". Any more suggestions, or thoughts to why this is happening ? Thanks again for all the support.  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/03/13
08:15 PM

Oh and BTW the 4th test i didn't do, just the first test for now.  Anymore suggestions, or thoughts to why this is happening ? Thanks again for all the support.  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/03/13
11:26 PM

clicking noise from various things indicates a bad connection...


clean clean clean... use a stainless steel wire tooth brush from the hardware or paint store.. the wooden handle versions have much better wire strand sizing..

when it clicks clicks click when you attempt to start...

i can explain that.. a dirty connection or loose connection allows just enough electrons to allow relays to operate... but when the contacts close and more power is needed for things like the starter.. the voltage drops... the relays open and voltage rises allowing the relays to close again... but the load drops the voltage and the relays open...   the voltage comes up and the relays close ...

lets run more tests...


positive battery post... to the starter post...   not the cables.. the post and the threaded post...

attempt to start the engine... does the voltage indicate more than 1.0 volts.. while the system is clicking..  then the positive side of the system has a dirty or loose connection....


now.. do a similar test on the negative side...

negative battery post to the engine block or even better ... to the starter housing...

less than one volt during attempted starting is good... more or intermittent surges over 1/2 volt is bad..


do you have a set of jumper cables...   take one pair of ends.. red and black.. hook to the negative battery terminal..


hook the other end.. red and black to the engine block/heads/intake/brackets.. something that is a good ground on the engine...   does it crank up then...   if so.. then you have a bad ground connection...

what... this jeep would not start either.. even with jumper cables hooked to another car...
note that both red and black clamps are on the negative post...  and the other pair red and black to the engine...

Battery Negative To Block Ground Test

the engine installer.. not me... left the negative battery cable disconnected from the engine block...

this is the same jeep....

2004 Jeep Liberty Firewall Grounds

note that the ground to the back of the engine was hooked over the WRONG stud.. it was installed over the plastic reservoir tank.... and it got hot enough to melt...

i moved the ground to the proper stud on the other side of the firewall and the jeep started.. even without the ground cable hooked up.. the owner decided to take it back to the installer to get them to fix it instead of me...

rig up some test leads with clips... and banana jacks..

Custommadetestleads  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/04/13
08:20 AM

I am going to run to the hardware store and by a wire brush and clean out my wires, I have to confess that when i took my exhaust heads out the coolant leaked on the starter terminal and the solenoid, anyhow i put my headers back together and now i will go to home depot and purchase a wire brush and clean out all my wires, and run some more of your tests and ill let you know what happens next, thanks again be back shortly.  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/04/13
08:43 AM

Stainlesssteeltoothbrush2

looka like this...  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/04/13
12:58 PM

Just bought the exact same brush in this picture you show me. I cleaned most of the electrical inserts and wires everywhere else under the hood, still no cranking and my solenoid is loose im going to tighten that, um I have an issue where the electrical units on the firewall are. One of the units i find has a cut in half wire, Looks like the wire got pulled out of the connector which leads to the transmission for the reverse lights. Ill show you pictures of the whole unit, and all the units unplugged, also i will send you pics of the wiring in my car right now, Do you have a number i can reach you at ? If you don't feel comfortable sharing it I am okay with that, I am in desperate need for help with this baby. Thanks.  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/04/13
02:50 PM

F6ea50f9cc5df953168223aee39c10c5

97696Cf1b9ee3b076e41a03197de006e

7A52d1e5f55e60cf03164e33f92fe877

9F0cd9751db492016ea3c878523c8431

69738C8f35e5e1c682a8f18b15d6568f  

Cuda383Bored60over Cuda383Bored60over
New User | Posts: 7 | Joined: 05/13
Posted: 05/04/13
02:57 PM

In the first picture where the connections are on the firewall, one wire got cut.  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/07/13
09:45 PM

the terminals inside the bulk head connectors can be removed easily... so you have two choices...

remove it and find a replacement in either the dorman tech terminals... or in pico terminals...

http://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/motormite/074-084_efinal_part4.pdf

its going to be either

85355 for the male side... that comes off in the engine bay...
85356 for the female side that stays in the bulk head main body.

or


85374 for the male 1/4" blade
85375 for the female 1/4" connector

in the past... i have carefully opened the crimp.. and soldered on a short section of wire.. and then slipped shrink tubing... up the wire and solder the short section to the existing wire..

where does that wire go to???
i also see some obvious burn damage to one of the other terminals.

i will have to look at the wiring diagram to study it.. but not probably till wed evening.. perhaps thursday morn..

family issues happening right now..  

waynep712222 waynep712222
User | Posts: 127 | Joined: 04/13
Posted: 05/07/13
10:07 PM

in looking at my wiring diagram... note 34...  the black wire goes down to the outer terminal of the neutral safety switch... the black and white wire comes back up from the other side of the neutral safety switch

that must be the back up light switch circuit

there is a black and yellow wire up from the center terminal of the neutral safety switch to the G position on the starter relay on the firewall....



i am also taking that the big wire on the starter actually has a NUT holding it onto the stud..


check your private message above to the left of where you log out at...