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advice on a 440 stroker rebuild, 73 block

Mopar Muscle
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advice on a 440 stroker rebuild, 73 block

jerryg7 jerryg7
New User | Posts: 37 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 10/13/12
11:21 AM

Car has stock (unported) edelbrock 84cc perf RPM heads and intake, hooker headers, 3.23 8 3/4 rear end, tremec tko 600 transmission, 800 eddy thunder carb,
comp cams 21-224-4

Int 274 dur (230 @0.50) .488 lift
Exh 286 dur (236 @0.50) .491 lift
110.0 lob sep,

Spun a bearing in the 73 block that was supposedly rebuilt. The crank was ext balanced and I'm going to go internal balanced and swap flywheel and damper.
There are stroker kits out there and I"m looking to go up to around 500cc. I see kits by mancini, eagle, hughes, muscle motors, 440source, coast high performance, and there are probably more...
I have seen on a few boards that the 440source stuff may have tapered journals in some cases and blow up due to being chinese stuff not well done ...although I'm sure a bunch of this stuff from every company originated in china. I"m guessing that it is the local machining that one has to worry about. My application is only high perf street (around 500hp) with pump gas - maybe get it on a dyno or burn some rubber once in a while but that's about it. This car is just for fun on the bucket list...
Does anyone out there have advice on any of these forged crank stroker kits after having used them or known anyone to use them? Good/bad/ugly on any of them?
I had also been thinking of going to a higher volume oil pump while we're in there...however there seems to be mixed advice on doing this. There are several posts out there that say the basic oil pump for a motor in this hp range should actually be sufficient.

Any advice will be appreciated.  

451Mopar 451Mopar
User | Posts: 220 | Joined: 07/10
Posted: 10/14/12
12:21 AM

On Moparts, I posted a bunch of info from my 505" stroked 440 using mostly 440 source parts, and the stealth heads.  

jerryg7 jerryg7
New User | Posts: 37 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 10/14/12
05:30 AM

thanks four fity one!  I see your last post was in August - still running fine?  Also, seems like you had a number of tweeks to the 440 source stuff; others had a number of comments as well but not as much data as you'd provided (thank you!).  Overall would you recommend this kit and company or after the experience would you wish you'd tried another mfgr?  
Maybe I'll ask it this way - overall on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest degree of recommendation to a best (mopar) friend for this kit and company, how would you rate it?

Again, great job on the posts (and hope the medical issues are well behind ya)!  

451Mopar 451Mopar
User | Posts: 220 | Joined: 07/10
Posted: 10/14/12
09:50 PM

That was my second stroker I built with 440 source parts, and their stuff is good for the money spent.  Muscle Motors and Hughes Engines also are good.  Muscle Motors built my original 451 short block back in the early 1990's, but it was based on reusing stock 440 crank and rods.  I have bought a bunch of parts and cams from Hughes, but not a stroker kit so I can't comment on it.  The 505" stroker is running fine.  I will try to get it on a chassis dyno after replacing the transmission.
Right now, it has an 833 4-speed with the stock clutch, and the clutch slips under full throttle.  I ordered the new Keisler SS700 5-speed trans with their clutch package that is supposed to be good for 650 ft/lbs?
The 500" stroker (440 source kit) based from a 400 block is currently apart.  No problems with the 440 source stroker kit, but I have broke the center rocker shaft stands on both of my Edelbrock Victor max Wedge heads.  That engine was making 560 HP at the rear tires on the chassis dyno, but it has a 0.714" lift solid roller cam.  

jerryg7 jerryg7
New User | Posts: 37 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 10/17/12
08:43 PM

Hey 451,
I have done a ton of web research and checking around the boards - from what I see I am leaning toward the Hughes 493 or 505 stroker.  I'm definitely dumping the cast crank I've got in favor of the forged.  The combination with my eddy heads looks like it will run about 9.6:1 compression - should be fine for high octane pump gas.  I was thinking of going with the fluid damper on 440source since I've got to make a change now that I'm going internal balance - any idea on that one by chance?  Also have to swap the flywheel - was looking at the science friction 130tooth from proformance powertrain systems as the remaining part I have to change for the internal balance.  The builder suggested I think of bumping up a bit more on the cam now that we're a bit more open on the motor - not sure I want to as the one I had was pretty good the way it was.  I don't want it too rump chunky running...
The engine was pulled out...and we found it was not "fully rebuilt" from M&M Auto Classics.  Never been rebored, most parts were never changed and upgraded that they claimed were replaced.  Found out others have had my pain as they are well documented for the same shenanigans as said here:
My experience is exactly the same.  My builder said I should sue them for making false claims...I have pic's and I am thinking about it.  Anyway, for those dealing with these clowns at M&M make sure you have their claims checked out FULLY.  At least now I'll finally know what I have and will enjoy my first engine build.  

451Mopar 451Mopar
User | Posts: 220 | Joined: 07/10
Posted: 10/18/12
07:43 PM

On the fluid damper or ATI damper, they are thicker than stock where the pulley attach, so they don't work with the stock pulleys.  March performance makes a pulley set when using the fluid damper.  On my 500, I have an ATI damper with the March pulleys for the fluid dampner and a 3/8" pulley spacer from ARE.
On the 505, I used a SFI replacement damper that is the same thickness at the pulley area, so my stock pulleys worked fine.
I can't help on the flywheel.  Sounds like your looking at the 24cc dished pistons?
For a street car with a mild cam, it should run good on pump gas.  
On my 505 I used the 17cc dish pistons, milled the block for zero deck height, and it is OK on pump gas at around 10.3:1 with my mild cam, but a did have some run-on on a really hot day when I shut the ignition off?  It may be that my PCV is picking up oil from the stock valve covers.  I have a taller set of aluminum valve covers I want to try next summer.