2010 AMSOIL/Mopar Muscle Engine Challenge

Ok guys, here's the spot you can talk, or ask questions about the challenge this year.

For starters, we want to know what you guys think of this year's rules 2010 Rules Click Here

Let everyone here know what you think it will take to win, and what you think the biggest horsepower number will be?  
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Some people are like Slinkys; they're not very useful, but fun to watch when pushed down the stairs.

I have a couple of questions for those that participate in these forums.

Suppose that under the 2010 rules there were two engines in the contest at the top of the horsepower chart, one was a 318ci at 521HP and a 408ci at 605HP.

Which is going to win the contest?

Which one would you want to personally BUILD if you had the finances?

Which one would you want to BUY if you could not build it yourself?

Which one would you like to see an in-depth build on?  

In your first question, the 318 wins by a margin of 1.63 to 1.48 HP/CI

Personally, I like cubic inches, so the 408 would be for me, but 521 hp on the street is more than enough.  
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Some people are like Slinkys; they're not very useful, but fun to watch when pushed down the stairs.

Correct, the winner would be the 318. It would take 665 HP for the 408 to TIE the 318.

Anybody else?

There are no wrong answers to the other questions.

I'm trying to get a consensus of opinion here. What would be your preference in engine size? Why?

I've seen responses in other forums, that seem to be by younger readers, that indicate they would prefer the smaller engines. Is that true? What would be the reason? Availability? Cost? Ego?

I like big inches also, but the thought of building a runt that would dust the big guys in peak horsepower gives me rush.

665HP 318? No way! But can a 408 do that with iron heads? How close can you get a 318 to a stroker with iron shoulderpads and a small fart tube?

Whadayathink?  

Since I'm sure you know a thing or two about hp/cubic inches, I don't doubt you could make a serious 318.

I guess my hang up is know there is a limit on what a 318 can do, and that limit isn't quite as high as 360 base.

Either way, it all costs money.  
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Some people are like Slinkys; they're not very useful, but fun to watch when pushed down the stairs.

I need info on up grading my front drum brakes on 71 demon to the 5 on 4 1/2 bolt
pattern disc brakes. I here there was an artical in march 05 issue of mopar muscle writin by bill rilley motor sports, on how to put early b body brakes 62-73 on a body but I have not been able to get a copy of the article If any one has done the change over or knows where I can get a copy of the article please let me know, I tried mopar muscle back copys but they had none.  

Why not a 360 making 600 HP. Hughes dynoed a solid cam motor with iron heads that produced numbers close to this. The cost would be less than a 408.
 Doc  

Dear Friends of Mopar Muscle magazine, it’s with great pride that I announce the participants of the 2010 AMSOIL/Mopar Muscle Engine Challenge.

Schurbon Engine and Machine
Scott Schurbon
203 South Clark St.
Maquoketa, IA, 52060
563/652-3100
Schurbo@msn.com

Mid America Racing Engines 
David Bruns
1945 W 18th Street
Washington, IA 52353
PH: 319/653-6282
midamericadb@iowatelecom.net 

Chenoweth Speed and Machine
Mike Chenoweth
368 Erie Ave
Morton, IL, 61550
309/266-8084
www.chenowethspeedandmachine.com

Promax Performance
Ben Gorman
30 Gasoline Alley Suite A
Indianapolis, IN
317/484-1451
sales@promaxcarbs.com

MRL Performance
Mike Liston
4651 Culley Lane
Jackson, MI, 49201
517/569-2672
Mrlperformance340@gmail.com

Speed-O-Motive
George Ullrich
131 North Lang Ave.
West Covina, CA, 91790626/869-0270
Stroker1946@gmail.com

B&G Speed and Machine
Bill Hess
140 East Old Plank
Bargersville, IN, 46106
317/752-0389
bgspeedmachine@yahoo.com  
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Some people are like Slinkys; they're not very useful, but fun to watch when pushed down the stairs.

By the way guys, here is how the testing is done at the dyno.

The Dyno Procedure
1
Once the engine is mounted to the dyno to the satisfaction of the builder and dyno operator, the engine will be started and brought up to operational temperature, as defined by a coolant temperature of 180- deg (f). The qualifying pull period will be initiated upon warm-up.


2
The qualifying period will consist of three qualifying pulls within a constant, 45-minute time frame over the full test rpm-range of 3,000-7,000 rpm. All testing will be at 600-r.p.m. per second. All three qualifying non-scored pulls must be completed within the constant 45-minute time frame for the engine to qualify for scored portion of the competition. During qualifying pulls, an engine builder may opt to abort any or all of his attempts at a qualifying pull once initiated; for tune-up or adjustment changes. Any aborted qualifying-pull must be made up by a make-up pull to bring the total number of full qualifying pulls to three.


3
After the qualifying pulls, as stated in the rules, a minimum of three full scored pulls must be completed within a second constant 45 ­minute time frame. For a valid attempt at a scored pull, the pull must be initiated with the coolant temperature stabilized at a reading of 180-degrees. As many attempts at a scored pull that can be accomplished within the allotted 45 minutes will be allowed. Score will be based upon the best pull achieved during the scoring time frame. Tuning will be allowed during this period.


4.
Parts changing/repairs will be allowed during any of the timed periods, if the changes can be accomplished within the allotted time.  
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Some people are like Slinkys; they're not very useful, but fun to watch when pushed down the stairs.

The real question in this years contest is:

Will Scott Schurbon put wheels on his engine dolly so it can be steered while pushing, or must it still be lifted and turned!  

I would like to see each engine installed into a street/strip car, driven at least 50 miles to a drag strip, make a few passes and be able to drive back from the track.

On the other hand, no upper RPM limit?  This could be interesting....

I could see where someone may enter a 600 HP 318 spinning it to 9,000+ RPM?  

Ok, to stir the pot, here's my suggested low buck 318 build:
318 engine square decked to 9.590" deck height, stock 3.31" stroke and 6.123" length rods.  Maybe even use the stock 318 crank and reconditioned rods to keep costs down, heck it only has to survive a few pulls
KB Icon 844 forged flatop pistons, 3.950" bore, 0.040" head gasket, approx 11:1 compression with 52cc heads, 0.040-0.042" quench distance.
RHS heads, ported, would like to see 300+ cfm?, milled to 50-52cc chamber volume.
1.6:1 rocker arms, 3/8" pushrods,
Comp MM series solid #6589 intake 297/271/0.669", #6588 exhaust 293/267/0.658", 112 lsa, installed around 106 degrees?
Edelbrock Victor intake, and holley 950 HP carb.
Estimate HP = 574 @ 7,000 RPM, 469 ft/lbs @ 5,500 RPM.
Estimate cranking cylinder pressure = 157 psi (intake closing @ 74.5 degrees ABDC.) with the 0.040" quench it should run on the required pump gas.
From my estimates, it appears the required 1-5/8", 35" long Hooker headers will be a limiting factor.  The inside tube diameter is only about 1.5".
The TTI 1-3/4" step headers would have been a better selection and cost about the same.  

Rumors, rumors, rumors. Could all this be true? Engines based on 273, 318, 340 & 360 blocks and from less than 300 to over 400 cubic inches. Getting to the Nats and seeing all these engines lined up along side the Mopar Muscle trailer should be interesting. This could be the most varied engine line up the contest has ever seen. Betcha at least one of the motors is set to run over 8000 rpm during the scored pulls. Don't think for a minute that these builders can't pull over 600 HP even with the small 1-5/8" header tube. I saw flow tests on the ported 360X head at over 300 cfm! Yeah Baby, this gonna sound like a Formula One convention!  

I would like to see indy put up one of their 700HP aluminum headed motors and let the chips fall were they may.  

Yes, it would have been interesting to have been able to choose a cylinder head for the contest but everyone has to use the 360X head this year. The 360X was designed as a stock replacement head and not as a performance head. Indy running the aluminum head this year would have been like telling the builders to run the 906 head on a 440 block and then letting Indy use the 440-1.

Why didn't Indy enter with a 360X headed motor? Then let us see where those chips end up.

Or was that your point? Maybe the 700 HP isn't?