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Rough take off, chugging
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 07/08/09 07:37 AM
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OK, here's the next problem. This never seems to end.
When I take off in my 70 R/T, the 440 is chugging. Plugs are good. I thought it was bad gas, but I've filled 'er up since then, change the fuel filter and checked all the plugs, added a bottle of seafoam gas treatment.
Over the winter I had the trans out, and I'm beginning to think this has something to do with it. It did it when I put the trans back in, but my plugs were shot. I changed them and had no trouble for a couple months. Now, I'm getting the chugging again. Could I have bolted the torque converter on wrong somehow? Does it matter what position the flex plate is in? Or just bad plug wires maybe? It seems to do this mostly when the car is warmed up. Maybe I need to adjust the timing for the summer? This issue clears up after 2500 rpm. No idea here.
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Posted: 07/08/09 07:38 PM
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Carb lean and/or wrong timing but you say plugs were shot? what did they look like? if black, too rich if white/yellow too lean/hot Make sure timing is no less then 35* at 3500rpm check both and report back.
age is no lock on brillance
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 07/09/09 07:04 AM
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Most of the plugs were tan. #1 and #3 were cruddy and black.....not as bad as I've seen them in the past. I have a bit of oil leaking down on a few cylinders. I didn't mention in the original post that I did clean off the #1 and 3 plugs.
I'll check into the timing this weekend and report back. You say no les than 35*.....and no more than what? It's set by ear now, and has been since early spring. Turn it up until it pings under a load, then back it off. Outside temp always seems to have an affect on the car too. always runs much better when it's in the 60s and 70s.
This car also has the MSD 6AL box, and MSD coil. There is no miss that I can feel or hear, at idle or cruising.
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Posted: 07/09/09 08:47 AM
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It really depends on the compression but no more than 38* total mech advance for G L , vac advance will add more but thats only at cruise, for the sake of it no more than 48-50*total with vac advance hooked up. Just make sure you dissconnect the vac canister before you check the timing.
age is no lock on brillance
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 07/13/09 05:19 AM
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It's set at 37*. That's where it wants to run best. Seems like there's a vac leak, but I cant find one. I've gone around the intake and carb, and vac hoses with propane and carb cleaner, no lift in idle(and luckily no fire or explosion ). All the plugs are firing at idle, but in gear, or taking off, It either wants to die from time to time, or chugs until 2000-2500 rpm.
Compression is supposed to be 10:1, but I've never varified that. It seems that plugs have a very short life in this motor. I'm using Champion RJ12YC. The car is a '70, but the 440 is '72 440RB. Is the MSD box burning out the plugs fast, or is it the oil leaking down on them causing them to foul? I'm changing them today to see if that works.
The guy that checked it out this weekend says the the vaccum gauge says timing is late, but yet it runs best at 37*.
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 07/23/09 05:00 AM
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Changed plugs and the car ran great for about 300 miles. I can feel a plug fouling out again. #2 is suspect. I'm thinking I have problems. The car has smoked since I bought it. I'm thinking rings.
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kcmcuda
New User
| Posts: 3
| Joined: 07/09
Posted: 07/24/09 04:32 AM
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If two plugs are fouling out and the rest look good, it sounds like a valve job may be in order. What do you mean by oil leaking down?
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/29/09 09:25 AM
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Plugs get oil on them when the car sits. I took it in to a shop (Gouger Racing)and there were several issues. Distributor sloppy (accel),needed a 4 hole plate under the carb (edelbrock 750), had an air breather on one side and a pcv valve on the other(vac leak), and it has been running synthetic oil since it was built. They suspect the rings have never seated properly and advised me to put in regular oil to break it in. Seems to run MUCH better, but I'm getting a pretty good ping under a load, when timing is backed down it doesn't run well. Tried octain boost, not much luck. Filling it with 110 will breakk the bank for sure. Compession ratio is supposed to be 10:1.
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 09/29/09 10:22 AM
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Well, regular oil stopped the smoking. Car runs very well on 93 mixed with 4 gallons of leaded 110 octain @ $6.50 a gallon. Compression must be higher than what I was told. The distributor is still suspect, but the 110 stops the ping.
Plugging the breather on one side has caused crankcase pressure to blow oil out of the intak on to the valley pan. Changed the gaskets, only to find that there was no gasket on the intake. There is now. Made a huge difference. I've been screwing with this car for 2 years.....mainly because the guy I bought it from didn't put intake gaskets on. Lucky me.
I put dual pcv valves with hoses teed, going to the carb. We'll see if the oil stops blowing out of the intake.
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darins701
New User
| Posts: 29
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 09/30/09 10:38 AM
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Hi, is it still pinging under load? You havent said if you run with the dis. vacuum hooked up or not. If you do, test the car with it disconnected and see if it still pings at any load. If it does, adjust the timing back till it stops pinging. Then hook the vacuum back up and drive the car. If it starts pinging again, you need to adjust the vacuum can on the distributor. Turn the set screw inside the vacuum diaphram in a turn and retest. You have been through alot already...lol, No intake gaskets...I bet they really helped you out.. glad to hear your getting it figured out.
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Posted: 10/03/09 04:47 PM
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I REBUILT A 440 IN THE WIFES 66 CHARGER. MOLLY RINGS NEVER SEATED CHUGGED,GUTLESS,HUGE BLOWBY, BLEW THE VALLEY PAN UP. I PULLED THE PISTONS, RAN A 400 BALL HONE IN EACH CYL. FOR 45 SECONDS (.001), RERINGED, BROKE IT IN CAREFULLY AT VARIES SPEEDS AND NOW ITS PERFECT.. BUT YOUR PROBLEM IS BAD PLUG WIRES, THEY DONT FIRE UNDER A LOAD UNTIL THE RPMS COME UP AND THE LOAD LESSENS. MARK.
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Coronet70
New User
| Posts: 23
| Joined: 08/08
Posted: 10/12/09 10:18 AM
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I'm not using the vac advance at all.
I bet the wires are shot. That would be the least time consuming thing to do.
Here's an update on what's happening.
The back bolt hole for the intake is stripped on the passenger side head. Had to put a metric bolt in it. The intake is still leaking right at that corner, although it just a trickle. I need to fix it right. My buddy who is helping me out feels like maybe someone did a little extra grinding on the heads, but didn't match the intake. The intake is very hard to put on with a gasket, probably explaining why there was no gasket. It's all starting to make sense. There was a single plane intake on the car before I bought it. The previous owner put the dual plane on to make it more streetable for me. (Thanks pal. The heads probably matched the single plane intake)Maybe I should get a set of unmolested 906 heads and start over??
This car runs great if I dump 5 gallons of leaded 110 octane(torco racing fuel) into 14 gallons of 93 octane. Ping is gone.
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Posted: 10/26/09 09:53 AM
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Put the single plane on it, or mill the dual plane to fit right w/ gaskets, or use some 'RightStuff' gasket maker on that/all ports. put a thin flim a lil bit away from the but around the ports ,as too close or too much will have it squishing into the ports.
age is no lock on brillance
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Posted: 10/26/09 09:54 AM
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You could also add a lil @ .050 duration to the cam specs and have another ground that bleeds off a lil more cyl pressure, then you can get away on straight pump gas.
age is no lock on brillance
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Posted: 10/29/09 10:56 AM
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If you have a steel headed motor with 10 to 1 compression and you now think the heads were milled,due to intake alignment,and 37 degrees of lead,there IS your detonation problem with 93 octane,perform a leak down test to verify cylinder integrity,NOT a static compression test! also throw that carb in the scrap pile and put a holley 750 on it, also advance the cam timing 2 degrees to help bottom end.
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