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Posted: 10/07/08 08:27 AM
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The car I'm working on is gonna be a street/strip. I want to be able to drive it around town but also be able to take it to the track. I'm not really concerned with rough idle. Its a 340 engine that I plan on stroking to 416. What RPM range should I look for while buying cams and intake? I was thinking 2000-6500 was good but I'm not sure. Thanks
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 456
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 10/07/08 04:08 PM
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Because of the longer stroke you will not have to rev. the life out of this motor, I would recommend 6000 rpm shifts to be safe. In fact blueprint small block stroker engines are recommended for 6000 rpm shifts and they are equipped with the H rods.
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Posted: 10/08/08 04:43 PM
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OK. I still don't know what RPM range to look for in my cams. Is 1500-6000 good? I think the question is what is too low? I'm really new to this stuff and trying to learn as much as possible.
Also, and this is off subject, howcome you and 340spd are usually the only guys who answer my questions? I always see a lot of views, but no one seems to want to give any advice except yall. I appreciate it. Its hard trying to learn this stuff from other places
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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Posted: 10/08/08 10:59 PM
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Get a cam that power bands 3200-7200rpm Or just figure what ever the cam is advertised at knock off 800 or so RPM due to the cubic inch increase.
I would call and ask different cam manufacturers what they recommend for your specific build and rpm/hp goals then pick one you like or cobble together specs within the range of recommendations you were given to tailor one for your engine/personal driving characteristics.
Go with a single plane, you won't won't be shy on torque!
age is no lock on brillance
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 456
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 10/09/08 09:21 PM
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Mr. 4 spd is right, aim high, 2800/3200 to 68/7200 rpm rated cam. My 360 has a 2800/7200 range cam which I shift at 6000 rpm and go through the traps at 6300 rpm, car pulls hard all the way. Engle makes a new cam that would work well in a stroker motor, it is a solid .575 lift, 250 duration at .50. power range 2800-6800. This cam will make big power and will have the potential of make 525/550 hp range.
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Posted: 10/11/08 04:34 PM
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The Engle site says that those cams are for racing only, not street. Is that gonna present an issue? Also, theyre only available for solid flat tappet. Is there much of a difference between cams for tappet versus roller? I would think that roller lifters would be better than tappet.
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 456
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 10/11/08 05:05 PM
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Yea thats what the sight says, however when you talk to Mark or Doug they tell you they can be used for a street/strip car. Would a roller be better, sure, if you want to spend about a grand for cam/lifters, springs. however rollers are known to wear out lifters and springs quicker because of the increased spring rates. Also rollers are better with todays modern oils. If your going to use a solid or hydraulic for that matter, your going to have to use an oil with a SL or SJ rating. Oil with an SL rating is Mobil 15w50 synthetic, or royal purple. I believe Valvoline 20w/50 race oil has a SJ rating, this is a none synthetic oil.
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Posted: 10/11/08 06:51 PM
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I use Royal Purple for almost everything. But you kind of confused me with that last post. Are rollers better? I'm fine with using the solid tappets, I was just curious about the rollers. Does it make any difference in HP?
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 456
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 10/11/08 07:45 PM
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Sorry, yes the roller is the cam that makes the most horsepower. However the number is less today than yrs. ago with the new solids that are now available. How much difference? Not sure, however I have been told only 5/10 h.p. when I last talked to Hughes cams.
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Posted: 10/12/08 07:34 AM
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The cam dr. recommended is a one, the same one I put in my 410 stroker. Don't worry about the 'race only' label. Chris at Engle said 'perfect choice' when I told him I was going to use this cam in my 410 along with giving him the gears compression and trans ect.
Heck, if you think about it most performance cams back in the day started out as race cams, and Engle has been around for a while so....
And BTW Engle was the grinder for Hughes engines UNTIL they asked for ramps that were so fast quite a few cams were going flat on people so they parted ways do to conflicting interest.
I had one cam go flat on me before, guess the brand?
age is no lock on brillance
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Posted: 10/12/08 02:53 PM
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Hey, glad to hear you are getting the chance to run an E-bod. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents again. I meant to a couple of days ago-but got busy. The cam recs the guys are giving you are good-just wanted to elaborate a bit as you did say this was fairly new to you. One thing is that in recommending a cam it is easy to pick something that fills the bill of a reasonably serious bracket build with a bit of street cruising thrown in. But, if I can paraphrase the real estate folks-it's about combination, combination, combination. To really narrow things down, there are lots of factors that go into making it all click. What e.t. are you shooting for? Pump gas? What gear are you going to or are willing to run? Some guys are stuck on using heads or intake that are not ideal and it skews what cam is going to be best for that combo. What trans are you running? If an auto, what stall are you willing to live with? Do you have a lot of parts you are commited to using-or is it a clean sheet? How much do you plan on lightening the vehicle? Are you going to run vac. accessories? What tire are you going to run? Are your head, intake, header, trans, and rear choices open? To pick the best cam, you need to have a clear picture of what the total combo will be so you can build a well-integrated machine-all parts working in harmony with each other. So, you asked about a roller? Yep, more power and torque-and more cost. $800-$1,000 maybe. You asked why are they better? The ramp of a flat tappet cam can only be so steep before the only part of the tappet in contact with it is the edge, and at some point you only have a tiny surface area at the extreme edge of the lifter whose small contact area has to absorb the entire force of the reciprocating assembly acting upon it-taken far enough the lifter edge digs in-instant failure. The roller wheel rides nice and smooth over lobes which can be incredibly steep-literally snapping the valves open. So when it comes time to open the intake valve it is open all the way-like right now! As a result of not needing a flat tappet lifter to ride a reasonably smooth clearance ramp as it begins to open the valve to ensure valvetrain life the valves do not need to be opened as soon. The shorter (or roughly the same) duration valve event still gives much greater flow due to the 'area under the curve'-the valves are open much more during any given part of the cycle. Thats the roller advantage. You can feed the engine to the same rpm while having much greater bottom end torque due to losing the need to hang the valves open as long. You can also have more high rpm hp while still having more bottom end, and for ultimate high rpm power the roller can't be beat. Also, you might wonder why 3404spd rec. a cam described as good to 7200, but shifts so much lower. That's because he is compensating the cam manufacturers recs for you based on displacement. A cam that they describe as feeding a 340 well to 7200 will not feed a 416 to as high of an rpm. More like in the low 6's. 244-252 deg. @.050 like the guys sugg. is prob. about right fo you. If this is long winded-it's because I was keeping in mind you said something about short responses and being new to all this. So, hope this helps out-theory wise. Now, what heads, intake, compression are you willing to run?
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Posted: 10/12/08 03:18 PM
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Wow, thats a great reply Cann. I'm beginning to figure out how everything works together by typing questions in google and asking other ones here. Thanks for the info. This is the setup that I'm looking at. I'm very open to suggestion, like I said this is my first project and I don't have any brand loyalties or anything, except Royal Purple. After switching to that I haven't used any other oil. We us it at work in all our high pressure pumping equipment. Anyway, the car has an AT, I haven't found out the actual specs on it yet but my friend said it was a torqueflite. I don't have the car here at my house yet so I can't get numbers or anything. I pick it up this week, when I can get time to go get it. As far as converter, I was thinking around 3000-3500. I want to be able to drive it around town and not worry about overheating the trans. I don't think that will be a problem with the RP. Heads are Edelbrock Performer RPM. Intake is Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane. My friend said not to go over about 10.5 compression cuz it won't run well on pump gas. I plan on using 93 octane (Exxon). Holley 750 Carb, just not sure which one yet. I was looking at the street HP model, or the 4160 (I think) because it is polished. I was also looking at the polished heads/intake. Gear, I'm not sure which one yet. I believe its a 8 1/4 rear end becuz it bolts together in the front of the diff instead of a cover on the rear. I don't know what's in it now as far as ratio, but I am open to change. I don't mind spending money, but I can't do it all at once. I'm gonna have to buy things over time. I want to get it driveable first, then when I have enough money get the engine fully done. I plan on buying the intake/carb soon so I can put it on instead of the stock intake. If you think there is a better combo than this I am open to suggestion. Holy crap I just looked at all I typed and its a lot. Anyway, thanks for the help!
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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Posted: 10/12/08 04:34 PM
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I forgot to put Air Gap in there again! Its a Performer RPM Air Gap intake.
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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Posted: 10/12/08 04:42 PM
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OK, I just looked at your post again and see that I missed some stuff. I don't know about the vac acc, which acc's require that? What are my options? As far as tires, I'm not sure either. I was thinking about gettin one set of rear tires for street, and another for the track. That way I can run slicks at the track and almost-slick street tires when I drive around. But if there is a great all-around tire I would choose that instead. Or if you can drive around with drag radials that would be cool too. I'm not gonna use this as a daily driver. I don't plan on driving in the rain at all so I should be able to get away with really slick tires, I just don't know what is street legal or not. I'm fine with using the flat tappets. I was just curious about the difference. That Engle cam is only made for solids anyway. And I really like the numbers on the cam.
'73 Dodge Challenger Rallye, 340 (Just found, first project)
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 456
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 10/12/08 05:24 PM
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You have an 8 3/4 rear end. You will have to check the ratio when you get the car home, the gear you use will depend on how tall a tire you pick. If your going to run radials you can run Mickey Thompson et. street drag radials. Put the biggest tire you can on the rear of the car. If your looking for the max. traction I would suggest a set of M.T. e.t. drag slicks [bias ply] for the track and the best bias ply street/strip tire out there is the M&H DOT steet strip drag tire. This is a legal street tire that wrinkles like a slick and has amazing traction for a tire with some tread. Again put the largest and tallest tire on the car you can. Carb, no question 750 or even an 800 double pumper. Do not even consider a vaccum carberator period, they are street carbs only.
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