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Posted: 08/10/08 03:54 PM
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I recently built up a 413. bored it .060, put in a road runner cam, put two 500cmm carbs, elec ignition, and used close chambered heads with the paper headgaskets, used the hp exhaust manifolds,, but Im disapointed in the performance.. what is the best way to check the compression, and what is the best heads for me to use, open or closed chambered? Im just not satisfied at all with the performance.. used flat top pistons, hydraulics, still, just not enough for me,, what can I do to the heads to make it more powerful? please email me directly to moparmel@gvtel.com
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 437
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 08/10/08 06:11 PM
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Without knowing compression ratio, cam profile, cyl. head# it is difficult to give advise. Also gear ratio and converter stall are very important in determining which way you should go to improve the 413 performance. Without knowing this lets go to the obvious. the twin carbs look impressive, however they never did live up to all the performance hyp. On the street a 4 barrel 750 double pumper on almost any 4 barrel intake will do well on a big or small block. Best intake for your RB block? Depends again on the package, although the original Torker was a very good intake. Headers are a must, 1 3/4" headmans work nice. Best heads, 452's are best because they already come with hardend valve seats, you should port&polish if you can afford this. Depending on the compression ratio you may want to use the thin steel head gaskets and possibly machine the heads to increase the compression. In the end a big block with 9.5 comp. on the street will do well on pump gas. Try and match the cam to the converter, eg. a higher duration such as 242 @ .050 should have a converter that will stall around 3500rpm. With your road runner cam I suspect the duration is quit a bit less and you can probably get away with a factory 11" 2400 stall converter. Although a converter is one of the most important performance improvements you can make in any automatic vehicle.
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Posted: 08/12/08 04:42 PM
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thanks for you advice,, I do appreciate you sharing yor knowledge..my main item right now is heads and compresssion.... at this time Ive got close chambered heads... there off a mid sixties 383... am I better off with them or the larger valve heads with open chamber? which one of these heads would work best for me if I shave off .030 and use thin steel gaskets? Im using the road runner manifolds,, I would think they would be satisfactory right? its a 413 bored .060.. it just doesnt have the power it should,,,, it has the power of a 290 HP engine.. Ive had them all and this one just dont have it.... thanks in advance for all your help.. email me if you would at mel@moparmel.com.... and again, thanks...
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Posted: 08/12/08 04:47 PM
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forgot one item to ask you, can I check the compresion ratio by just useing a compression gauge and checking the compression? and if so, what is the best way to check it, one plug at a time engine idling, or maybe pull all plugs and check that way and how high can I go using todays ga ses?
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Posted: 08/12/08 07:13 PM
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Don't run the engine while checking compression. ark the ign/starter relay with a screwdriver and let it comp about 4-5 times and check the reading. The best way is to take all the plugs out and with one hand hold the carb wide open and with the other hand ark the relay [the one by the battery] turning the engine without starting it. I would get a single 750-800cfm double pumper carb w/rpm intake. Then I would get a pro billet dist and set to the highest initial timing that my motor could crank over then limit the mech advance in the dist so that I ended up with what total timing the motor ran best with [hypo] 26*initial-38*advance. That will create lots of throttle response at all rpms. Just a start
age is no lock on brillance
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Posted: 08/17/08 07:56 AM
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two items... first, Im not a holley person at all, so in your opinon, would edelrock do the same,,, second,, useing the electronic mopar ignition, do I really need that distributer?
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 437
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 08/17/08 12:59 PM
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Check the comp. with the plugs out. Crank the engine 4 or 5 times is o.k. After checking all the cyl. you will want to recheck any cyl that might have been low. All cyls. should read with in 10% or you may have a problem. A good rule of thumb with todays gas is 150 max per cyl. As far as performance parts, you still haven't told us what cam duration you have, or more important duration at .050. Also what is the lift, e.g. 484? If this is a street car make sure you are running with the vaccum advance dist. You can set it up for total timing with the vac. advance off, 36-38 degrees. Then set the initial for 10-12 degrees. You can set the vacumm advance unit for quicker advance by turning the allen key headed screw counter clock wise, you will find this screw inside the vaccum advance unit through the vaccum advance hole for the vaccum line. This will help with better throttle response. Closed chamber heads should give you good throttle response even the old 383's. If you are considering changing the heads I would recommend a set of stock valved 452 castings, they have the hardened valve seats. Most 76-78 400-440's had these heads. If your pistons are sitting down in the hole when at top dead centre, e.g. .120 thousands, then you have low compression pistons. You can only measure this when the heads are off. If this is the case, have your heads machined .60 thousands. This will help wake your motor up and get your comp. readings up to the 150 lbs I was talking about earlier. You can even use the steel shimmed head gaskets, they are about .24 thousands thinner than the paper gaskets, and are worth about 10 lbs of compression per cylinder. I would strongly recommend getting rid of the dual quad intake manifold. A single 4 barrel will always out perform a dual quad set up with better overall performance and throttle response especially on a street car. If you don't like holleys than go with a 750 edelbrock carb.
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Posted: 08/17/08 07:05 PM
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you have been very helpful to me and I want to thank you for taking the time... people like you are a asset to us mopar guys..... someone told me once that I could not take off more than .30 off heads.. more than that and the intake wont fit... whats your opinion on that? also, like I said earlier, I bored the 413 .060,, aboutwhat compression should I have with cc heads? warm or cold?
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drmopar
Enthusiast
| Posts: 437
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 08/17/08 08:05 PM
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A general rule for milling small block heads is .30 thousands. I have removed .040 with no problems on a set of LA 360 heads. You can take .060 of a big block head with no problems. You will have to have the intake side of the head machined as well. The machine shop will know how much to remove if they don't, find a machine shop that does. This needs to be done so the intake will fit. If you take .060 off the heads you can expect a full point of compression increase. e.g. if you were at 9/1 comp. you will have approx. 10/1 when you machine the heads. A little more with the thin gaskets. Note if you are using open chamber heads you will lose a 1/2 point of comp. More reason to use the steel shimed head gaskets. After the machine work look for compression readings in the 150 lb range hot. Raising the comp. 1 point on your 413 should add a solid 30-40 horse power. I have done this exact work on a set of 452 head castings and noticed a huge performance gain over the old closed chamber heads I had on my 440. Something that is over looked is gasket matching. Gaskets should be cut to fit the exact size of the head port for best flow. I do the same with my header gaskets to optimize exhaust flow. Once this is done you need to match the intake & the ehxaust gasket to the header & intake by matching the ports to the gaskets, this will optimize flow and is worth another 10 horse power if done with care. Good Luck and have some fun. *** If you are running a large duration camshaft say 248 at .050 you might want to consider advancing the cam 4 degrees. This always gives a nice boost of bottom end torque. Summit sells the gears & chain for the RB 413-440 engines that have three settings built into the cam gear. Install this kit with the +4 setting, the instructions are easy to follow.
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badbee
New User
| Posts: 16
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 08/21/08 12:42 PM
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I thought I would give you a bit of a tip regarding your carb choice. I dont know what the specs are on your cam but if the duration @ .50 is 240 or less I would stay with a 750 cfm with your size motor. I wouldnt go with an 850 on anything less than 450 or so cubes. Since you are running an auto trans in a street car stay away from the double pumpers. Always go with a vacuum secondary with an auto trans on the street. Doubles pumps are good for manual transmisions. You have to keep in mind that all of the components of your car ahve to work in conjunction with one another for the entire package to be effective and efficient and the heart of all of it (especially with your motor) is the camshaft
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